craps player rating

[box man]

How do you calculate the average bet for a craps player, all bets including odds and contract bets or only flat bets ?
What is the ratio to earn points: house edge x roll per hour x average bet ?

How many points to get in your casino ?
What is the house edge and roll per hour ?
Do you take his average bet from his first bet or every time he is pressing because if it is a long roll he will press every roll but if it is 7 out than he will start with the small bet again ?

Thanks for giving me some advice.

[sgiles]

Depending on the software you have in the pit - the ratings differ here in the USA. Players are not rated on any odds bets.

Some software allows for you to differentiate between bets placing higher value on the prop bets.

As far as rating a player on a roll, thoughts differ again. My opinion is to rate them for their entire play - not just what they started out playing. For me, the rating has to make sense. For example;

A $5 player goes on a roll and wins $10,000. An average bet of $5 does not make sense so the rating should take into account the entire session. After all, the player did risk more at certain times and should receive credit. The old school will tell you that you don't rate a player playing with "house money" but that is complete BS.

Decisions per hour differ and most software allows for a "game pace" of slow, medium or fast which will affect the theoretical win. Most casinos use "medium pace" as it is way to subjective.

As far as house edge - I am sure it is different in the UK but here is a link to the man who does it best:

http://wizardofodds.com/craps

Good Luck

[porcupine]

Slightly more difficult to rate as opposed to the more simpler games, ie, blackjack and roulette. As said you need the necessary software to take in to account the differing bets. Obviously a player that strictly bets just the line and a 6 and 8 will earn less than a player say betting the line and always the 4 and 10. Having said that a lot of software just tries to balance out the house edge as an average unless the player is an anomaly. Example being a player we get regular plays $100 each the hardways and $100 each hi lo yo.

But to me the most important thing with rating a player on any game is this issue of earning points on pressed bets, house money in play. I know there are differing schools regarding this issue and as the previous comment mentioned not taking this in to account is BS. I personally would like a better reason than saying its BS as to why a player playing with "house money" should get rated at a higher level.

Simple example player A starts at the craps table ($200 buy in) with $10 the line (odds irrelevant as these never get rated) and $12 each the 6 and 8. He proceeds to play like this for the next 2 hours and more or less stays even. 30 minutes later and still the same roll he has $50 the line and $550 across. Upon a 7 out said player has $10,000 in his rack and then proceeds to continue with the same bet for the next 4 hours. Time to go player A cashes out, lets say 10k and off he toddles.

For me its a no brainer in for $200, played for 6 1/2 hours, average bet $35. Our friend previously is saying that he should get the same time played at probably $500 a decision. This player is going to make a chunk of change in comps and his average bet is going to be at 2 1/2 times his initial buy in. The only way I could ever adjust hs average bet is if the player then proceeded to come in on a regular basis and play the same way, $50 the line and 100,s across, but he aint.

I know a little of the subject but maybe something to be discussed further. As mentioned though there are plenty of formulas for working out comps earned on craps and its a given that odds are never rated.

So peeps out there whats your opinion on rating play with house money, any takers?

[saintpeter]

Boxman, IMO for a more accurate assessment of the players action, you should use "element of risk" i.e. potential loss per result, in conjunction with average bet.

As for not rating higher action if it's with "house money", i'd want to know the player won't take the hump and walk over to the competition if they don't get rated. I'd rather shell out for a room than lose a customer over something so trivial.

[porcupine]

Just dont see how a player can get rated on action with the house money if on the face of it he is ony prepared to wager a small amount both action and buy in. If you think jumping a player from a $30/$40 rating per decision to $500+ is worth doing just in case he walks over the road your much mistaken.

Before you know it you have a large amount of your grind players blasting at you after fortunate runs and getting triple+ the rating for $$$ they have zero intention of playing. Recently I myself had a punt with $50 in a casino not far from mine and several shoes later whilst flat betting $5 a hand had $850 in front of me. I then proceeded to play 2 boxes at $75 a hand and kicked there teeth in. I never for a moment expected to be rated at an average bet of $150 and would never do so myself. I have worked in establishments where at the higher rating (which you would clearly allow) I would in fact earn comps at an hourly rate far exceeding my actual buy in.

IMHO completely ludicrous.

[saintpeter]

Porcupine, if my grind players have had a good run, i'd be doing everything i could to get them to "blast away". If they're punting it, the odds are in my favour.

And neither should you be rated at $150 average bet. If you've been punting $5 flat for several shoes, then start playing $150 per round, your average won't be $150.

You say it's ludicrous to rate the player at a higher level. Telling the player they're not getting rated because it's "house money" strikes me as being the ludicrous part.