Empty cash desk

[Zera Spiel]

Has any of you been in situation/s where one is operating a casino and there is not enough cash in the building to pay clients?

[ian]

Hello Zera,

It can happen (as I'm sure other members will confirm) mainly it's smaller op's that have the problem but I'm sure that even the biggest casinos in the world sometimes can't find enough paper to pay their whales if they specifically ask for cash.

Easy solution - give the players company cheques or simply tell them to take their cash chips or plaques home and come back tomorrow. Alternatively open the drop boxes and use that cash to pay the players - not always a good idea from a security point of view though.


Ian

[sgiles]

It happened in a casino I worked at in Bournemouth.

We did an emergency drop which basically involved opening the box at the table where the punter had bought in and gave him his own cash back! (after counting it of course)

He subsequently gave it us back with no further emergency drop needed!

[saintpeter]

Yep, it happened to us way back when we had the one big punter who, if he had a big win, wasn't covered by the masses.
We just explained the cash desk is limited by law to a certain amount (true); wrote a deposit slip, said come back tomorrow after the banks are open and we'll give you cash. All sweet and it gave him bragging rights which in turn gave us word of mouth advertising.

[redcarded1]

Been a good few years since i've seen it but we had procedures in place for an interim count.

I have also had to go and get money from another one of our casinos before as well.

[Godber]

I have been in this situation a number of times, in one casino due to the amount we were required to bank down to it was a daily occurence.You have several options if you are running low on cash:

You should firstly try and get any big cash outs to accept a cheque or leave it on deposit so they can return at a later date when your cash levels are more fluid.

If you have a sister casino nearby you may be able to get cash from them, a manager and a couple of other members of staff would go with a cheque and exchange for cash. Most companies would have insurance limits which would dictate the amount of cash you could carry and the number of staff required to transport it.

Most commonly you would perform an interim count after assessing your cash levels are running low. You may need to choose more than one table with a large cash drop. A manager accompanied by at least two other members of staff would exchange the drop boxes for empty ones and proceed to the count room. A count of all cash would be performed as usual and passed on to the cash desk who should confirm the amount and return the equivalent in plaques to the count room to be placed in the drop box. The drop box would then remain securely in the count room or safe and be amalgamated with the following count. An interim count sheet should be used so the figures can be checked during the following count.

Hope that helps.

[ian]

Excellent reply Godber and thanks for going through the procedures for handling such an event.

Another similar situation is when a considerable false drop is generated by a significant customer(s) running off to the cash desk every few minutes and cashing out, then returning and buying in.

With money laundering rules and regulations now in place in many casinos this may not be as big a problem as in the past. However if it does happen either the drop boxes have to be pulled and a procedure followed as outlined by Godber above (plaques or a credit slip deposited in the box) or the cash is run directly back to the cage and the float replenished with cash chips.

The latter procedure being particularly popular with managers wishing to maintain their hold %'s


Ian

[redcarded1]

We run the money back. Anyone with one of our own sealed bags will just have it exchanged for plaque at cashdesk.

I would have thought that was standard practice in all clubs the same as with godbers explanation for interim count procedures ?

[ian]

Hello RC,

I would have thought in most U.S. casinos it's an absolute no-no.
You would have to have a state gaming official accompanying the manager to the cash desk and back.

Also in Germany it's commonplace for tax officials to be on hand to witness and verify almost every transaction (particularly slots) so running cash back to the cage there could get complicated.

In Eastern Europe however you probably get scenarios that are exactly the opposite especially with the possibility that 3 or 4 currencies might be accepted at the table with an exchange rate posted in the pit.


It just shows perhaps that there's never really a 'correct' way to run a casino.


Ian

[madmike]

Work on a cruise ship and one of sister ships had a whale onboard, and on day 6 of a seven day cruise the guest won more in chips than we had on hand in all assests, thats soft cash, cash in slot machines, coins and cash avaiable from the bank desk onboard.
We'd have been in an impossible situation, but luck was on our side and he lost most on day 7. Still ended up with a cash out containing $100's, $50's 20 and 10's in a nice manilla enelope.
Only time in nearly 13 years onboard I'd even heard of it. needless to say we now have a procedure in place to prevent this happening again.

[redcarded1]

There must be a winners cheque avilable for him though ? Even if he wasn't keen on a cheque if he physically wipes you out of all cash then he would have no option.

At the end of the day any operation can only carry so much cash in their cashdesk.

[madmike]

Originally Posted by redcarded1

There must be a winners cheque avilable for him though ? Even if he wasn't keen on a cheque if he physically wipes you out of all cash then he would have no option.

At the end of the day any operation can only carry so much cash in their cashdesk.

.

he apparently wasnt keen, but its the last resort. Fortunately it was never needed.

[sgiles]

Although I have never seen an interim count here in the US, I have seen a few "EmergencyDrops" when the paddle won't go in the box because it is full of cash. A nice problem to have. The box is dropped as per usual drop procedures and replaced with a box marked "Emergency Drop".

I saw this several times when gaming first hit the area around Chicago, Joliet etc.

[Maverick]

"Only time in nearly 13 years onboard I'd even heard of it. needless to say we now have a procedure in place to prevent this happening again."

hi madmike, you made this comment in one of your posts above, excuse my ignorance but exactly what procedure can you have in place to stop a player taking buckets of money from you?

[madmike]

My fault for not making that clearer, its not the stopping the guest wining buckets (or in our case big manilla envelopes) full of cash, its being able to write them a check, or an ordering process for extra cash if necessary on embarcation day morning. Can be tough on the ships as your not in the same place two consecutive days, so not like you can just pop to the local bank to get same more $$$, or even ask the guest to come back tomorrow, as that may be a different cruise.

[711 Moike]

Madmike - If a player can take everything you have then you either have an insufficient impress, your maximums priced wrong for the amount of comparable business or as it sounds in this case both. Whale or not, you set the limits - hard to belive this lucky streak could have cleaned you out. Probably a spineless 'manager' giving in to a big shot and letting him bet way too much - you were at sea for God's sake, where was he gonna go!

I've done the emergency drops for full boxes like SGiles and also had to crack open four craps boxes when a bank transfer went wrong and too many $100's got shipped out, they said we may run low, but we just didn't make it.

[madmike]

kind of mixture of all the above, $350,000 win on Blackjack with a $2000 box limit. Once in a 100 year win for the guest, but did catch the ship out.

[ian]

That's some win and it would be interesting to know if any members have experienced anything similar on BJ.

I can remember a 4 day cruise out of San Pedro to Ensenada & Catalina Island where a punter flat betting $100 and playing alone was up 7k over the first 3 days only to lose it all back on the last night.

Never tipped a penny so maybe he got his just reward !


Ian

[sgiles]

This was on a "riverboat" on Lake Michigan in Indiana. Regular punter who was a baker and was a $25 player. Went on a two day winning streak and was up $500k and ended up betting two bets at 5k on BJ. We were all willing him to get up and go home because he was a nice guy. He did not leave and consequently blew it all back leaving us all in a state of shock because we have all wanted that big win that would change your life. He was back the next week playing his usual $25 looking pretty grim.

[711 Moike]

Thorn - were you on the Norway for the introduction of the face up BJ game? I'll refrain from using names to protect the innocent, but they got it all wrong and allowed splits and double downs after spliting. Needless to say they took a bath that week. The guy immediately purchased a cruise for the following week but I don't think he sailed when he found out we had discovered the correct rules and were going to implement them.

[ian]

Casinos getting rules wrong and using faulty equipment cant be as uncommon however as one would think. I've heard about staff being convinced that they should deal one card face up in 3 Card Poker (Gives a 2% player advantage apparenty).

The most famous goof up of all has to be in London where they opened up a Roulette with a section of the wheel duplicated and only realised after a punter told them.

Time perhaps for a new thread on the subject

Ian

[Visma]

When I ran an operation on board ship we had an agreement with the chief purser that if necessary they would extend to me the additional funds should I exceed my head cage balance … This only occurred twice while I was on board … but the money involved was not very large .. I had a head cage of about $10k .and the purser had about $20k on hand …

[gavmate777]

When working in S.E. Asia I once had to 'loan' the casino $15,000 to pay out a guest who had been on quite a run and cleaned out the cage.....needless to say I got it back..eventually..

[Tony Mc]

I thought anything over a certain amount was paid by cheque or credit transfer? If I had a big win I certainly wouldn't want to carry more than 2 bag in cash anyway, unless I had a personal minder! I remember one time a couple of years ago I cashed out around £1500 and insisted on a taxi right outside the door and then bolted up my apartment and bedroom etc until I could get to a bank the next day, and I again got a taxi door to door! I know I was being a bit paranoid but I couldn't think of anythin worse than a good win, only to get mugged!

[ian]

Then give it to em'.

Maybe it's a smaller operation off the beaten track and the customer(s) concerned perhaps have a penchant for wearing leather jackets, drive black BMW's and themselves come almost daily with bundles of the stuff.

What are you going to say to them if on one occasion they have a decent win - "Do you want to take a cheque gentlemen ?


Of course it may be one of your older lady customers who's won a decent sized slot jackpot. If that's the case and she wants some of it in cash (perhaps for gifts to the family etc..) Give her a mixture.

Any decent operation though will also make sure that transport is available for her. It doesn't always happen however, and stories of winning punters being robbed on their own doorsteps or even on the way to the casino car park sadly aren't a rarity.


Ian