What they want and what they get!

[jhn]

Most people who have never been in a casino probably only have films or TV as a reference point.
I,when i started working and most potential customers expect one of two things either:
1. James Bond style.Black and Whites,evening dresses,nice surroundings.Basically something with a bit of class.
2.Vegas style.Showbiz and razzmataz

So why is it not like this? Instead the vast majority of clubs in the UK could be best described as holes.The staff are in daft uniforms and there is absolutely nothing classy about any of it.Perhaps i am missing the point but nice surroundings,decent uniforms and proper behaviour on both sides of the table really do not cost that much and would surely attract more people.
I can see why they don't copy the vegas model because lf the fear of inherent cost.Although there has been cheap and frankly tacky attempts.
So to the point and the question i want to ask.The operators claim they cannot offer a decent product until after de-regulation and then all will be rosy

1. Are the companies and people in the UK capable of offering the product that people want and expect or will they bring people in?
2.What have they failed to do thus far and what are the main failings?
3.What needs to be done to offer a better product?
4.What can we learn from abroad?
5.Where should we look to learn lessons from(u.s,Oz,Europe)
Attendances in the UK have been stagnant for years which tells me that people are not impressed when visiting for the first time and that the word of mouth about going for a night out in a casino is not good. so these are questions people in the industry have to ask themselves.People don't just hand over money just because it is a bit easier than it was (other than hardcore gamblers)and shareholders will be expecting some money back

[sgiles]

I agree with the daft uniforms that are seen these days. At least let the dealers have their dignity. Do they really have to match the carpet?

I am all for black and whites which almost everybody looks good in.

I think that the Vegas type experience comes from the fact that Vegas is a destination resort where people go to get drunk, gamble and generally misbehave.

The regional casinos in the States have about as much atmosphere as a public toilet. Your local punters are just as depressing as the ones in the UK.

[PaulE]

I agree. I for one was a tad dissapointed on my first shift, in that epicentre of class and sophistication........the Kingsway Casino Swansea when a dapper gent in a tux didnt ask for 'Sheven hundred on Sheventeen'.

How difficult is it to have a group of staff in black and whites with a neutral casino floors (dark woods, polished brass, neutral colours) and a nice restaurant to acompany everything with some above avergae offerings.

I seem to remember the staff at Le Croups in Cardiff having to wear straw boaters, if anyone is better informed please correct me on that one as it may have been somewhere else.

[Wilphe]

Put it this way:

Would you design a pub to appeal to people who don't drink and have never seen one except on the TV?

Not unless you are trying an attempt to expand the market you don't; and if you are re-converting an existing outlet you risk alienating your regulars - "My local has been turned into a Trendy Wine Bar!"

Now why would you take that risk when you can your regulars happy and make a decent living?

Especially as how the new people you will get in will, if I am being cynical here, the Friday and Saturday night casual crowd who sterotypically do the following things:
Come in drunk
Sit down in groups of six on your low stakes roulette even though only two of them are punting - at three chips a spin each
Actually express emotion when they win
Take the end box on Blackjack, call it Pontoon and then irritate everyone else on the table for standing on a soft 16 when the dealer has a four showing.

You get the idea

I think we are, as an industry, pretty bad at catering to first-time punters.

However, we not only can afford to be, we pretty much have to be:
First-timers aren't especially profitable and can drive away the established gamblers who are. Some of them might become punters, but very few of them will start that way.

[ian]

Hello jhn,

I was contacted by a researcher for the BBC's Radio 4 You and Yours on who was looking for opinions on a regional casino and where may be the best place for it.

A couple of the points I mentioned about the overall state of the casino business in Britain are quite relevant to this topic.


This was my reply today...


Hello Geoff,

Here are a few thoughts on the subject of regional casinos.

Blackpool does now appear to be the favourite but there are perhaps other cities that could also lay claim to be in need of regeneration. My hometown of Sheffield, Sunderland, Birmingham and indeed Glasgow have all staked a claim, and all have overseas backers presently waiting in the wings.

The growth in the UK casino business over the last 20 or so years has been steady but unspectacular. Attendance has barely risen in the decade or so that the Gaming Board has been keeping records. Operators lay the blame for this at not being able to advertise but the fact is that every punter in the UK knows exactly where the casinos are in their town or city, but many choose simply not to go. Or more accurately they have visited, but the vast majority do not become regulars.

The average attendance presently is around 240 per day per casino. There is a reason for the dismal turnout and in my opinion it's not the restrictive nature of the Gaming Act of 1968 (although some new table games would help) it's the lack of imagination and investment by many of the present operators.

The industry is dominated by three companies and their cosy semi-monopolies have allowed them to constantly take out with no requirement either at local or national level for them to plough anything back. Many casinos remaining largely unchanged since the 80's and early 90's with the exeption of a several that have been relocated to allow for the possiblity of the installation of more slots. Sometimes table layouts are left unchanged far too long simply because management don't want to spend money on replacing them.

Because croupiers and gaming staff are not allowed to accept tips many of the best and most able have moved abroad over the years. Customer service is extremely poor and there has always been a constant need for new trainees as salaries fell further behind and working conditions deteriorated. Because the jobs offered have now got such a poor reputation at local level operators have actively started to recruit in Eastern Europe to fill available positions.

On the regeneration argument, I personally am not convinced that a regional casino wherever it is located will bring with it the benefits that are touted by some planning authorities and many of the casino operators.


Continued...

[ian]

Take Blackpool as an example. The argument is that if you have a mega casino with 1,250 slots it will provide thousands of jobs. Some jobs will be created but the modern ticket in ticket out slot machine rarely needs any attention other than wiping down with a cloth each day. The restaurants and bars within the complex will take trade away from local businesses as has been proven in the U.S.

Blackpool in its heyday had 10's of millions of visitors per year and the town is still full of thousands of AWP slots. Why then does the town need any regenation at all ?. If the argument is that slots provide regeneration then the town should already be the Monte Carlo of the North.

Britain does not have the weather of a Las Vegas, the South of France or Australia's Gold Coast so the operation is unlikely to attract thousands of tourists per year. The money and play will come from those who live within a 1 to 20 mile radius and this will hold true for any provincial operation.

The exception is London which certainly would get a good percentage of action from overseas visitors. It would also be my first choice as the location.


Let's face it, Londoner's have more money to lose than anywhere else. Give them the chance I say


Best regards
Ian

[Wilphe]

It's not a case of whether having a decent restaurant, a demonstration table and enough staff to open as many tables as you need will attract customers.

Of course it will.

That's not the matter at issue. It's whether the additional custom you create will be worth the effort and investment. Is putting an extra dealer on for what will be often be minimal action worth the investment?

I don't have any figures* but the recieved wisdom is that hospitality is a loss-leader and restaurants are subsidized by the gaming floor. So bigger restaurant = more opportunity to make a loss which you have got to get back off the floor.
Not to mention that casinos are run by gaming floor wallahs whose list of qualifications does not typically include how to run a Bar or Restaurant.

So i would say the idea that these people coming in have never gambled before is totally wrong.

I didn't say that; please explain how punting on the Horses or playing the lottery helps you understand how to play Blackjack or Punto?

The main issue is that the facilities and service offered in UK casinos are pathetic.

Why change a winning formula?
The industry is not in life support.

* So if somebody does please correct me.

[sgiles]

I guess it depends on what market you are in.

In competitive markets, the amenities can make the difference. A good restaurant can bring the high end players in because they are used to the best of everything.

The Food and Beverage department should be run with experienced F&B guys who know how to present a good product and provide good service. They should run off their own budget and generate revenue independant of table games or slots.

I like the idea of Learn To Play tables to catch cross-over play from slots. Any game can be intimidating if you have never seen it before so this form of instruction can be an ice breaker as well as educational.

Why change a winning formula?

I agree, but why not try and improve it.

[sentinel]

I was aware that LCI had debts, but not Stanleys. Do you have a figure? Is this likely to mean that they will indeed need to sell off the bookmaking division in order to balance the books? What about all the money Genting bring to the table?

As for the state of casinos, I agree that first time punters are likely to return if all they are offered is gambling; why travel miles on a rainy night to get to a casino with few or no other facilities when you could just as easily gamble online?

Walking into my club to start a nightshift is like groundhog day: the same faces on the same tables, and the few new faces you see are there simply to gamble. Any company which describes itself as an "entertainment" provider is deluding itself.

[casinonomad]

Ian delved into this in passing -- the rest seem to be stuck in the pit -- thus your 1960's paradigm. It's the slots stupid (A quote from a CEO whose company specializes in Midwest/Gulf Coast gaming). Outside of Maccu, slots are the anchor (50%-90% of bottom-line revenue) for the vast majority of casinos that drive the companies that seem to be the envy many participating in this forum.

With a 1,250 slot machine limit, the model for the new gaming bill has devolved from Las Vegas, to Atlantic City to the regional model more prevalent in the Midwest/Gulf Coast. Despise it or not, the market provides profitability and some decent employers. Accept it or not, even if the UK had approved the 8 regional casinos, over 50% would probably end up drawing from a small geographic area 20-50 miles, the best run may achieve destination status.

The low labor and high profitability of slot machines creates the cash flow, reduced volatility and foot traffic to sustain the type facilities you guys dream about. With the slot limits in place, I would look at the best facilities in the regions I have eluded to, not the best on the Las Vegas strip as the models of you future. My hunch is the UK is still 10 years from matching the best in Biloxi, Mississippi. What a shame that politicians and moralists can’t have the foresight to accept opportunity at face value. It appears that ship has sailed and the UK is left with the riverboat gaming model.

[Sic Bo Selector]

Where is it written in stone that it has to be a loss leader?

A classy well-run restaurant and bar(s) can at least break even, if not better.

And it does make a hell of a difference to the ambience of a casino - provide what people want and you'll get 'em in (and keep 'em coming back!)

[ian]

Hello Jhn,

Your questions are the type that are given to students to write a thesis upon @ Reno and UNLV. Salford I believe also get their recruits analysing the British industry.

Not a bad idea actually. Cheaper than bringing in a big name company from the smoke who then get their own trainess to write it. The industry sponsor the course so perhaps they also get first dibs on the talent.


Casinomad,

I know you come from a region saturated with slots but European attitudes are different. Also slots are available in cafes, pubs and bars throughout the continent.

In the U.S., casinos have in most juristictions a monopoly. There are exceptions and convenience store and gas station gaming is in the news regularily - ususally after a bust

Britain's problem will always be getting the punters in the door. There is an increasingly wide range of products on the market that allow the gambler to indulge in his or her hobby.


Here's the rundown in no particular order. Casinos are only a part of a rich tapestry and far from being the central design.


Bingo - Major towns and cities. Attendance per day ? (In the GBGB report).
Lottery - Weekly draws and scratchcards.
Bookmakers - Almost every high street and 8 to 9,000 in total.
Pub slot machines - Thousands and thousands of them.
High street amusement arcades - Slots getting constantly bigger payouts.
Seaside amusement arcades - Kiddies rides and games at the front. 18+ orientated slots in the back.
Casinos - 137 or 8 at the moment and a 30'ish 000 total daily attendance.
Interactive TV - Live on screen betting on almost all live soccer, tennis, golf and cricket.
Internet Casinos and Poker - Punt 24 hours a day with whoever you want. GFPoker.com prefereably
Spread betting - Maily internet but also by telephone.
Horse racing - 6/7 days a week. Bet at the course, from home, work or now on your mobile.
Dog Racing - Very popular and quite fashionable on weekends, courses acoss the country.


The Mississippi and Louisana markets did well and still do well because they had the advantage of no competition for gambling. That is not so in Britain.

Also legislators (and Politicians ) handed the gaming industry a dream ticket when there were hardly any restrictions placed on the size of the operations (other than the casino must have a bit of water going around it) and a single figure tax rate.

Britain will certainly not be the same as available land is scarce and very expensive also the tax issue has not been resolved. The top rate in London is I believe presently 40%, perhaps one would expect a similar figure for any regonal casino.


So slot barns are not the simple answer, and there may not be any simple answer. That's why I think jhn has asked 10 questions, and it may well take a paperback book to answer them properly.


Ian

[casinonomad]

Ian, though I respect an insider’s perspective to a market I am unfamiliar with, I still believe the UK limitations are the writing on the wall for the future casino business model. Louisiana does have video poker in many bars, restaurants and “truck stops.” The number of slots on the floor is prohibited by the riverboat concept. The “boats” need to maintain a captain and full marine crew and run their engines so many hours a week. Having a seaworthy boat creates default limitations on square footage and gaming positions. They also limited gaming licenses to 15. Indian casinos and the recent advent of slots only racinos also provide completion.

Mississippi did not limit gaming licenses, thus the competition stems from the evolution of casino towns/districts/strips. They provide plenty of competition within relatively small geographic reasons. Even the grind joints usually have a steak house, buffet, and usually some type of deli/casual dining. Most offer some type of venue for live entertainment. The challenge for each and every one is to get people in the door.

My original point was not to dismiss the unique challenges to the UK, but to draw a comparison to the multitude of casinos (including Illinois, Iowa, Indiana, Missouri) that have a similar number of slots as now required by the UK legislation. These casinos also offer many of the amenities (with varying degrees of success) that contributors to this thread seem to be looking for in THEIR casinos.

Profitability = Investment = Job Security. The markets I have eluded to generate all of the above – all, I imagine, concerns to those of you looking to the future in your industry of choice.

[anin1]

Ian

In the posts in this thread one gets the impression that many are restricted by the concept of casinos as clubs. A regional casino with the gaming positions created by the numbers of slots and tables will have to have additional footfall drivers, the word “Casino” outside in bright lights will not be enough.
It is in being able to analyse the areas where the target market spend their leisure time and providing similar or better facilities on site that the successful operator will generate the critical mass to operate successfully. Each aspect of the complex be it a restaurant, a club, a shop, cinema complex or a show venue will have to be able to stand alone as a desirable destination in its own right and to operate as a stand alone business. The mix for London might well be very different to that in the Midlands. In all cases the composition of the entire package is important. A casino on its own or with additional facilities added on as an afterthought or without adequate thought and financial resources will not achieve the footfall needed.

anin

[casinonomad]

Just to further educate myself, in the new regional casino(s) with 1,250 slots, how many table games do you expect to be sustainable over the long term. I realize, each market will vary greatly, but on average (from those of you who work and game in the various regions), what do you think: 50, 100, 200...

[anin1]

jhn

Your posts continue to refer to the known and accepted casino customers. As Ian has mentioned there are numerous opportunities for those with the urge to have a bet in a vast number of places that are not clubs. In most cases these customers are playing on some form of “machine”. These punters are the potential growth market of the casinos once they are able to offer a product that is more in keeping with world wide trends.
The operators of the casinos under the new laws have a vast market waiting to be tapped. With the right product on the floor and the marketing to get these customers in the building the revenues will be staggering. Who is going to be happy playing for limited patouts when the casinos are offering so much more?

anin