Casino Blackjack tracking system?

[Victoria]

[quote]Originally posted by Jennifer


Hi Jennifer

I agree. A good example is if a player somehow had a device which could change the game, if caught he would be charged with a crime. Change the game by tweaking the rules (6/5 single deck) and it is perfectly legal. If you think those rules stink, then do not play, if you play it was your choice.

My problem here is that personally I am coming from more than one direction. As stated earlier I have family still in this business, including my husband. At the same time I am a player, (never play where family works the floor). As a player MP21 might recognize too much and I think my average bet and charm probably does me more good concerning comps than some machine will do for me. As a family member I think it might hurt tips and take and perhaps cost a few jobs.
What I am not is a stockholder and perhaps their view is different.

Victoria

[Victoria]

[quote]Originally posted by ian

Hi Ian

OK, Ive been checked out. I am a player (as stated before) but would never play where I worked or at another casino owned by my old employers.

There are a few friends, pit types, who are at the Hilton and might express an opinion here. I would ask them, but would think they would refuse because even though ownership has changed, much of management is the same and if their identities are detected, their opinions could get them into difficulities that just are not worth it.

I read somewhere that Mohegan Sun had placed a large order for MP21, do not know when delivery starts but they have over 100 tables. Surely, once installed there, you should get some feedback from dealers or the pit.

More devious thoughts!

Since the device records bets I would think it would note a capped (cheating) bet by a player, a wrong payout by a dealer, and probably several other security type things. Is the next step the elimination of the dealer all together? Or am I letting a bunch of paranoia into this. I know that the vast majority of table game players like the interaction with the dealer, which is probably why most table game players are not big slot players. I also have seen the introduction of video blackjack with a huge screen and rotating video dealers, in several casinos. You know they do not need a paycheck, medical benifits, call in sick, want a vacation, or retirement. All you need is a couple of guys with screwdrivers to keep them fit for work. I think Jennifer in her reply said she was all for technology, I just think it has its place but can not be all for it.

Victoria

[sgiles]

I have been asked by my employer to do a little research into Mindplay.

We had the pitch from the salesperson of course and it sounded good.

I was interested in the productivity reports it could generate.

At the moment we have supervisors doing hands per hour studies and the results are totally based on human observation which is dependant upon work ethic and integrity.

Some of the reports are excellent with good usable data. Most of the time I can see that the supervisor made up the numbers and had a good old natter with the guy in the next section.

I was also interested in the ability of the system to rate players acurately. We do monthly comp reports and the inconsistencies are huge. Players are being overcomped to the tune of hundreds of thousands a year. It would be nice to be sure that a player was being rated fairly.

The most common beef with guests these days are that they are not being rated properly. It would be nice to have some good data to show them that was 100% accurate. I think that is just good service.

The most important impact that Mindplay would have is this:

It frees up my floors to watch the games ( a lost art in the States where guest service is paramount )

I am sick of putting a good supervisor in a high limits section and expecting him/her to watch the money and do x amount of comps and rate the players accurately and greet each player personally etc....

Our supervisors are Secret Shopped on a monthly basis and are held accountable for any low scores. It makes me ill because there are no exceptable excuses that these good employees have.

They are not allowed to be "buried" in paperwork, or watching the high end to the exclusion of any player.

Mindplay would at least free them up from the rating process.

As far as using the card counting features, I will not advise our company to use those.

Card counters stick out like a sore thumb and we don't need machines to tell us that.

If someone is counting, we back them off. No messing around. Shuffling up juat gives shuffle trackers more chance to do their thing. I say go in and be positive.

Most counters just stand up and leave with nothing said.

I really enjoy this feature Ian. Sorry about the inane ramblings.

Stewart

[ian]

Hello Stewart,

Welcome to the forum and good luck with your research.

The Forum has a private message feature so if members wish to share information or contact one another privately that can be used.

Did your sales person give a cost per unit for an installation ?
That information seems very hard to come by and I am curious.


Ian

[gravyboy]

Originally posted by Victoria
I have seen so many of them place a much bigger bet than usual on the felt when a supervisor comes over and then when he is gone reduce their subsquent bets.

I might be missing something here - but don't most places (I say most with caution) comp based on Win/Loss not drop?

Also if the bet on each hand is recorded - Mindplay or not - then the average bet for that session/time period is increased no matter what, increasing the likelyhood that they will be comp'd more favourably...

As I said I might be missing something...

[Victoria]

First part: If comps are given for win/loss, then the lucky player gets nothing for his session even though he is perhaps playing a game that the house has a big advantage on. Comps, most often, are based upon the amount of money wagered, factored by the expectation of the house's win and then multiplied by a certain percentage for comps for that game. Generally a game such as slots receives a larger percentage than blackjack or craps, because it has a larger house advantage. If you get lucky and win, they do not take it away from you. There are other forms of comps also. As a host there were many a time where a big player wanted something extra and depending on his action some very strange requests were filled. There are big players who have arangements where they are rebated a percentage of loss for a trip, generally people who might loose several hundred thousand dollars or more. In this case, if they win there is nothing to rebate.

I do not understand the second part of your question. The major difference I see between Mindplay and the current method of evaluating action at a table game is that the current system is full of human error and that is what the Mindplay folks can pitch effectively. Mindplay will perfectly record every bet. Currently, the supervisor is watching the players, the dealer, watching transactions, making sure payoffs are correct, getting markers, asking for and supervising fills, giving out comp slips and perhaps occassionaly even recording someone's bet size. He basically is giving his best educated guess and often will ask the dealer. If either the dealer or supervisor like this player, guess what happens to his bet size. If he stiffs the dealer on tips, take another guess. Mindplay will take the guess work out of this.

My problems with Mindplay come about because I think it may cost some jobs.
The casino will spin it's decision to purchase Mindplay as a player friendly device, but in fact the purpose of purchasing it just might be to make sure their players are not getting more than they are entittled too. From my experience, I firmly believe that those customers I considered regulars, always believed that they were getting something extra in comps.
Then, as a player myself, I have other problems with "big brother", or Mindplay.

I think it will cut down on comps but I do not know if that is necessary. With the current trend of mega casino corporations buying each other, the fewer owners, the fewer choices the customer has, the fewer comps needed.

Is it worth it? If comps are to be cut anyway, if the number of hands played per hour drops at tables and the hold with it, why bother. If players (loosing players) find out that it gives them nothing extra and they go next door instead, why bother!

Victoria

[sgiles]

Hi Ian,

I was at the presentation but not privy to the cost of the system.

I do know that it is excess of 20 grand per table and operated through palm pilot - gadgets that allow the supervisors to be on the move.

Regualr casino chips can be used but special cards have to be purchased so the shoe can read them ( special shoes too! )

I am sure that it has it's good points as well as it's daily operating pains. I would love to give it a go on a trial basis but it would mean a revamp of electricals and training for the staff, so I think you have to be committed to the venturVery interesting thread which I emailed to my boss and he was equally impressed.

Keep up the excellent work.

Stewart