CASINO NEWS & OPERATIONS FORUM
INTERNATIONAL GAMING NEWS ~ JOB LISTINGS ~ MULTI-MEDIA

Gamingfloor.com
YouTube
Facebook
Pinterest
Gamingfloor.biz
Flickr
Twitter   ~ Add URL

Interested in advertising on Gaming floor? contact us for further details


Go Back   Casino News and Operations Forum > Casino Operations > The Business - General Casino Op's

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rating: Thread Rating: 60 votes, 5.00 average. Display Modes
  #1  
Old 18th October 2003
ian's Avatar
ian ian is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Yorkshire
Posts: 8,640
Question Stolen money - Should casinos pay it back?

A court case has proven, and a conviction has been handed down. Customer A stole money from Company B.

He/she gambled away the proceeds of the crime in Casino C. Should Casino C then be made to refund the money lost to Company B?

I also assume that during the case it has been established beyond doubt that the money was indeed lost and that Casino C has records of the amount.

If the money was found at Customer A's house or in a bank account it would be automatically returned.

What do you think and what would be the end result if such rules for casinos became law.?

Ian
__________________
Gaming floor - www.gamingfloor.com
FacebookFlickrTwitterYouTubePinterest
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 18th October 2003
Michelle Michelle is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Bucharest
Posts: 220
If I unknowingly bought a stolen car and the police traced that car to me, I would have to hand it over with no hope of compensation.

I think the same law would apply in this case - Casino C will most probably have to return the money even though they are in no way at fault.
__________________
It is useless to attempt to reason a man out of what he was never reasoned into. Jonathan Swift
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 18th October 2003
ian's Avatar
ian ian is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Yorkshire
Posts: 8,640
Should Bookmakers also pay it back!

Two cases from Australia where the amounts stolen totalled A$30 million.

Mug banker blew $19m at the track
http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2003/...364487727.html

A quite amazing report. The Bookmakers involved being International All Sports and Sportingbet Australia both based in Northern Territory.

Sportingbet is now fighting in the Australian courts over whether indeed they should have to repay the amount lost by their client.

The other remarkable aspect is that the bank where A$18,998,309.36 was stolen did not know until their manager gave himself up!

Ian
__________________
Gaming floor - www.gamingfloor.com
FacebookFlickrTwitterYouTubePinterest
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 19th October 2003
Craig Craig is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Wales
Posts: 719
Hi,

Can't see why casino C should re-pay the money, this guy went into the casino and lost! They didn't know the money was stolen, there was no way to check if it was (unlike a car- Michelle), so why should they be penalised?

It is the person who stole the money in the first place that should be held accountable, not the innocent third party!

As for the bookies thing in OZ, it is absolutely incredible, how could he steal that amount of money and not be discovered until he owned up to it - amazing!

But, you have to ask yourself, what did he spend the A$9.36 on? Maybe a Big Mac and chips

Craig
__________________
Valued employees are happy employees
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 19th October 2003
ian's Avatar
ian ian is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Yorkshire
Posts: 8,640
Mmm $9.36

Perhaps it was on Ebay - That famous work "How to win on the Ponies for Dummies".

http://search.ebay.com/search/search...0&BasicSearch=

In the case of the Bank Manager it would appear he was the ultimate mug punter as described in the newspaper headline.

But there are other more calculating and single minded individuals who may want to use a casino to cover their tracks for the eventual destination of stolen funds.

I am reminded of early regulations in Greece (pre- privatisation) where a customer had to prove earnings with details from bank managers and tax returns before being even allowed to gamble.

That would be going too far but certainly with recent events and the ongoing "Global war on Terror" as it is called, casino operators and bookmakers will surely have to be more diligent.

Ian
__________________
Gaming floor - www.gamingfloor.com
FacebookFlickrTwitterYouTubePinterest
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 23rd October 2003
piikeaa piikeaa is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: USA
Posts: 37
Stolen money - Should casinos pay it back?

Yes.

The court case should be made regarding the details for Casino C to recover its overheads and operating costs while the stolen money was in house. I believe though, that it would take a pretty damm wise, enlightened, visionary, sophosticated operator who could see beyond such a spectable to grasp the mammoth p/r bonus such a tactic would land his company.
__________________
fatmiddleagehawaiianlady
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 24th October 2003
anin anin is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 246
In cases where the casino is able to show the customerís losses it might be feasible. In the 70ís I worked in darkest Africa in a country where there was a spate of middle to senior civil servants caught with fingers in the till. Each and every one claimed to have lost the money in the casino. Apart from one they were not known to any of the staff, they had all hidden their ill-gotten wealth and claimed casino losses to put the local constabulary off searching for it. An average of 5 years with time off for good behavior and they were free to live like kings.
If the casino had been forced to repay all the money claimed to have been lost there we would have been claiming tax back from the government and been guilty of underreporting our revenues!
Each case should be viewed separately and dealt with according to the provable facts. For this to happen litigation will possibly be the only answer.

anin
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 29th October 2003
H A N D H A N D is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: europe
Posts: 52
Does It Work Both Ways

What If a punter comes in with stolen money and WINS
Can the casino CLAIM the winnings back ?????
__________________
Have A Nice Day
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 29th October 2003
True Blue Boy True Blue Boy is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Montreal
Posts: 2
Hand has a very good point everyone knows you could never get the money back if someone won, but don't you think if it were known the the a Casino or bookies had to repay lost money that was proved to be stolen more people would steal to gamble knowing that their firm would not lose out.
__________________
Remember where ever you go, there you are
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 30th October 2003
ian's Avatar
ian ian is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Yorkshire
Posts: 8,640
Does a thief care about anyone

Other than themselves?

I do not think the point that True Blue makes is correct. In my mind an employee dipping into the till is hardly going to be thinking "They will get it back if I'm caught"" as they plan their next betting spree.

What many do however is delude themselves that they themselves will make good the balance, when they win.

Some may well do that. Others don't, or if they are slot players they will perhaps never get a chance to do so, loosing from day 1 onwards.

At the moment there is a high profile trial in Australia involving almost A$20 million bet on the ponies by a bank manager.

There is also the case of an Asian player arrested in Singapore for allegedly stealing over A$100 million most ending up on Oz baccarat tables.

Both of these cases could have been avoided if the companies concerned had chosen to be more diligent. If the money is not repaid then executives, shareholders and government's to whom tax was paid are all directly benefitting from the proceeds of crime.

IMVHO

Ian
__________________
Gaming floor - www.gamingfloor.com
FacebookFlickrTwitterYouTubePinterest
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump

GAMING FLOOR'S TWEETED PUBLICATIONS
 International Casino News
 British Casino/Poker
 Asian Casino News
 Internet & Interactive
 Prob. & Resp. Gambling
 Canadian Casino News
 Southern Africa Casino News
 Casino News en Español
 Casino News auf Deutsch

eXTReMe Tracker

Reset: 1/4/2008

All times are GMT +1. The time now is 12:11 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Online since: 7th October 2002